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Proposal: The Reenactor Ethos
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shiftsup
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This might be too specific for this manifesto. However, would it be useful to name the units we do impressions of? Specifically NW Europe 1944 - 1945. Having a DAK, FSSF, 5th SS or 1st Canadian Infantry Division is fine and all but really doesn't fit in to what we currently do in games. Specifically we do 101st, CDN/BRIT Airborne and 9th SS with some Heer in the mix. CDN / BRIT Airborne is even a bit of a stretch for authenticity considering the big 3 weapons they used aren't that accessible in Canada at this time (as airsoft guns).

I only bring it up due to some of the chatter on some of the ASC wwii threads if you know what I am talking about.


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Karsten Heidt
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My instinct is to keep the manifesto in general terms, without too many brass-tack specifics unless they illustrate a specific point we're trying to make. If this thing gets much longer we will stray in to tl;dr territory. What we could do, however, is expand the information on current, active units on the website itself? Right now they are a few pictures and a unit roster, not much to go on. If people wanted to write up bits on the history of their unit, its notable commanders and battles, and why it is an interesting outfit to depict, I think that would be great. I was planning on writing authenticity and collecting guidelines for the Luftwaffe and Brit Para, perhaps they could be incorporated in to that?
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shiftsup
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Specifically the units we portray participated in the NW European theatre from June 1944 to Jan 1945. It's one sentence.

We really only have 2 active units that can muster 4 or more guys with kit at any given time (101st and 9th SS). The rest are whimsy.

Are we not looking for homogeneous units on the field? This past Saturday, Tiker, FK and Fuji looked superb through my iron sights. Those 3 guys really made the game enjoyable for me.
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Karsten Heidt
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we committed to conducting late war NW Europe scenarios exclusively, forever though? Right now that is our focus, but nowhere is it written that in future, if the numbers and interest is there, we couldn't do Eastern Front events, or North Africa, Crete, Italy, the 1940 spring campaign, etc. Italy in particular is great for battles where you have multiple arms of service represented because every branch of the Wehrmacht and the whole range of US and Commonwealth units, plus Free Poles and French, partisans, almost everyone fought there at one time or another. I want to avoid limiting statements that lock us in one theatre and frame of thought.

Lee, your thoughts?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody is talking about forever, just the foreseeable future. It makes the choice for a first impression easy. Getting guys to put together one good impression is hard enough.

This is my 5th year with the group and it has been very 101st AB v. SS during this time. The CAN/Brit Para group for airsoft seems to have fizzled out for the most part.

I am all for an Italian campaign game, the kit for that has been ready for a couple of years now. There's a FSSF thread on here that started in 2007 and there are only 2 guys currently that can actually pull of that off.

I only bring this up because it would be great to have a local SW Ontario Level 1 game where we had lets say 10 v 10 all of the belligerents were homogeneous. Just my bias.
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leecas
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

consume wrote:
Are we committed to conducting late war NW Europe scenarios exclusively, forever though? Right now that is our focus, but nowhere is it written that in future, if the numbers and interest is there, we couldn't do Eastern Front events, or North Africa, Crete, Italy, the 1940 spring campaign, etc. Italy in particular is great for battles where you have multiple arms of service represented because every branch of the Wehrmacht and the whole range of US and Commonwealth units, plus Free Poles and French, partisans, almost everyone fought there at one time or another. I want to avoid limiting statements that lock us in one theatre and frame of thought.

Lee, your thoughts?


You've both made good points and each of you are correct. If you go to the main site and look at the Introduction section... the following is the second paragraph.

This organization is for individuals interested in either the Allies or Axis. You can join an existing unit, be it that there are not that many units at this time, or start a new one. Your impression can be Canadian, British, American, Russian, Italian or German. We have chosen to represent troops that served in the European Theatre of WWII; therefore I would not recommend doing a Japanese impression.

My intention was to try to limit impressions to the ETO... my thinking 7 years ago was that if you try to open it to the entire war you would be lucky to get units that had two or three guys in them. Instead if you kept it to at least the ETO then my hope was to get less units but with more guys in each of those units. But also, at that time it never entered my mind that we would be doing Living History events.

So my thoughts today, seeing how far this group has grown and the many different events that we do, is that when it comes to Living History events any impression from WWII (as long as it's 100% correct) is welcome. As to airsoft or BF tacticals I would still like to limit it to the ETO. If we want to do localized Level I games then we have to be realistic and try to build one or two different units for each side that have dedicated members that participate 70 - 100% of the events that we schedule. For example... Easy has about 15 guys on their roster but I've never seen all 15 guys in one place at the same time. Even the unit photo is photoshopped. The idea is the more guys that you have in a unit the more likely you will have a decent turn out at events. And again, I get it... life happens which explains why you get the turn out that we get and is also why I do not believe in manditory attendance for certain events.

I would love to do Italy scenarios or scenarios that did not involve 101st but as Mike mentioned we have two guys in the FSSF. And it's tough enough to get some guys to put together ONE great impression for one unit let alone for more then one.

I'll take an event were we have ten guys on each side that look the part, act the part and live the part for that event... over 20 or 30 guys on each side with a mishmash of impressions... some great, some good, some ahh, and the others "did you even give it a try".

Does that mean we don't allow other units to join that don't fall into our part of the war... absolutely not. All are welcome. More and different units means that we can do different scenarios. But we have to be realistic in that we have a better chance of organizing quality units when we limit the operations to a certain time and area of the war.

I know I'm rambling and making arguments for both sides... like I said you both make good points. So, in conclusion... we mention that we mainly do impressions for the ETO but we encourage all impressions.
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Karsten Heidt
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Changed to reflect the above, added this bit to the Commitment section as it seemed to relate most to picking a unit and sticking with it:

While any period-correct military impression is acceptable for public display events, most of our tactical events take place in the late war, Northwest European theatre. Your main impression should fit in with that, preferably as a member of an already-established unit. We don't need more 3-man "divisions".

Hahaha, I'm in a Regiment of one. Forever arone...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If members join and limit their first impression to 101st / Can / Brit Para or SS / Heer it does make visually for a better game. 10 guys appearing from the same unit make the game seem larger in scope.

If you have 3 x 101st, 2 x legs, 4 x partisans and 1 x Can / Brit Para it limits the suspension of disbelief. It's more like "oh that guy again".

I could see it this past Saturday...4 ss guys clearly acting like a unit...the rest maybe half the time acting so. It wasn't much different on the allied side except we only had 3 guys from the same unit and one dude was very new.

The choice people make in their impression also reflects their willingness to follow the CoC in a game situation. A few years back I made this mistake.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uniform units are obviously very impressive and desirable, and people should be encouraged to join one. But at the same time, this is a hobby, not an obligation, people should be able to do an impression that appeals to them personally (within reason, I'm sure none of us want to see NSDAP Gauleiter getups or whatever). It would kind of suck to have to put down a bunch of money on an impression that you didn't fully believe in. Some people who want to do a German impression may be uncomfortable wearing the uniform of the Waffen-SS, for instance.

What I think should be done for the Axis is, there should be ONE SS unit that everyone who wants to go that route is encouraged to join. Likewise, ONE Heer unit, and ONE Luftwaffe unit. That way the ragtag effect is minimized, and everyone still gets to do what they want to do. Thoughts?
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leecas
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

consume wrote:
Uniform units are obviously very impressive and desirable, and people should be encouraged to join one. But at the same time, this is a hobby, not an obligation, people should be able to do an impression that appeals to them personally (within reason, I'm sure none of us want to see NSDAP Gauleiter getups or whatever). It would kind of suck to have to put down a bunch of money on an impression that you didn't fully believe in. Some people who want to do a German impression may be uncomfortable wearing the uniform of the Waffen-SS, for instance.

What I think should be done for the Axis is, there should be ONE SS unit that everyone who wants to go that route is encouraged to join. Likewise, ONE Heer unit, and ONE Luftwaffe unit. That way the ragtag effect is minimized, and everyone still gets to do what they want to do. Thoughts?


I agree... it's always encouraged to join an existing unit but we should never limit a new member to doing a unit that they really don't have an interest in.

Units always start out small but they have to start somewhere. People are more likely to join a unit for their interst first and for the numbers second. If they do not have a specific unit in mind they tend to join a unit that have more numbers.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many of the units on the roster are still extant? I mean, if we pared it down to just the active ones, but increased the information available to help guide new players in their choices with unit history, notable actions, a basic kit guide, would that help eliminate confusion? Give new recruits a gentle push in the right direction rather than having some poor innocent show up at an event with a Japanese rifle and an Italian Bersaglieri cap or whatever?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

consume wrote:
How many of the units on the roster are still extant? I mean, if we pared it down to just the active ones, but increased the information available to help guide new players in their choices with unit history, notable actions, a basic kit guide, would that help eliminate confusion? Give new recruits a gentle push in the right direction rather than having some poor innocent show up at an event with a Japanese rifle and an Italian Bersaglieri cap or whatever?


I did some cleanup a while ago... so all units that are listed are active in some form or another. Not all do Living history and or Airsoft.

But yes each section needs more info... unit History, aim of the re-enacting unit, requirements, etc. I would also like to see a profile page for each member of the unit. Click on a name and their profile page opens.

I'll most likely set it up for easy in the next couple of weeks and if others like it I can do the same for the rest of the units that wish to have it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

consume wrote:
...(within reason, I'm sure none of us want to see NSDAP Gauleiter getups or whatever).....


Again...ffs?

consume wrote:
What I think should be done for the Axis is, there should be ONE SS unit that everyone who wants to go that route is encouraged to join. Likewise, ONE Heer unit, and ONE Luftwaffe unit. That way the ragtag effect is minimized, and everyone still gets to do what they want to do. Thoughts?


The 'ragtag' effect was reality for the German Army if we are dealing with late war European Theatre. After the red army destroyed 80% of the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front, the only option left was to throw together 'kampfgruppes' of various unit and branches, if any type of major offensive/defensive action was needed.

I kinda like the variety of the German uniforms at any event (except Afrika Korps) since all the impressions are so awesome. I've been attending WW2 airsoft games since I started airsoft in '04'-'05', and have sported a generic SS uniform without unit designations. The reason for that is....I still can't decide which impression to specifically re-enact. [Although, I think I'm settling on a Gebirgsjaeger/Mountain Troop impression (ala Sepp Allerberger or Matthaus Hetzenauer). So even though there are no mountains to climb....there are trees!] They fought on all major fronts of the war.

If I was a noob, especially interested in the German side, I wouldn't want to be shoe-horned into an existing unit.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mentioned the Gauleiter as an obvious absurdity that should never be countenanced. Political uniforms in general leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Yes, ad-hoc Kampfgruppe were the norm in the late war years, but that mixing of arms of services generally took place at Regiment and Bataillon level, not down to the infantry section. Obviously given the number of participants we have to compress the scale a bit, but I'd love to see a mixed KG of SS, Heer, and LW troops, each with their own leader but operating under a unified command. That would be rad.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

leecas wrote:
I did some cleanup a while ago... so all units that are listed are active in some form or another. Not all do Living history and or Airsoft.

But yes each section needs more info... unit History, aim of the re-enacting unit, requirements, etc. I would also like to see a profile page for each member of the unit. Click on a name and their profile page opens.

I'll most likely set it up for easy in the next couple of weeks and if others like it I can do the same for the rest of the units that wish to have it.



if we do something like that shouldnt we also update the photos on there as well?

or remove that all together?
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